Ep. 90 - Centring the Child’s Voice: Social Work in the Federal Circuit and Family Court of Australia
JS
J S
0:02
Welcome to Social Work Stories, a podcast exploring social work practice through stories and critical reflection. This podcast is recorded on Aboriginal country, which was never ceded. We acknowledge the traditional custodians and cultural knowledge holders of these lands, and pay our respects to Aboriginal elders past, present and emerging. We offer a warm welcome to any indigenous listeners who are part of our podcast community around the world. If you have thoughts or feedback for our team, or just want to find our whole back catalogue of episodes, check out our website socialworkstories.com. But for now, on with the Episode.
LM
Lis Murphy
0:52
Hello, welcome to Social Work stories podcast. My name is Lis Murphy. And I am here with my co host as usual. Dr. Mim Fox and Hello there.
MF
Mim Fox
1:03
Hi, Lis Hi, everyone. Really great to be here. Have you been Lis?
LM
Lis Murphy
1:07
I've been very good. I truly I can't say this enough. I do you recommend retirement?
MF
Mim Fox
1:13
Are you a winter person, Lis or a summer person?
LM
Lis Murphy
1:16
I am becoming a winter person. Maybe it's old age, maybe it's just you know, the extreme heat that we experienced in Australia now. I get excited with winter. It can get in the minuses now. And I don't care. I have beanie and I'm fine.
MF
Mim Fox
1:33
Yeah, I agree with you. I, I find that I long for the colder months now in a way that I didn't used to, I would be very happy to be living in a cooler climate. I have to say, when we get to these hot hot summers now Yeah,
LM
Lis Murphy
1:47
I am hearing you. And speaking of travel, you know that I have been traveling around recording. And this is, you know, we're just about to talk about this one that I traveled for, not necessarily in the cooler climes I did. I had a road trip with my mike. And I went to record two social workers at the Federal Circuit and Family Court of Australia, which I was very excited about, because this is not something that they normally do. Yeah, their work is, you know, for all of the obvious reasons, their work is very, very private, and confidentiality, like all social workers is is held up as something incredibly important. But they've made an exception for us, my friend, they've allowed us to come in or me with a few mics. And they've told us a little bit about what social work looks like in the Federal Circuit and Family Court. Yeah. And they've also shared a little story as well. But I just wanted to say, Mim, it's a little different. The shape of this recording is a little different to what our listeners would be used to, isn't it?
MF
Mim Fox
3:01
Definitely, definitely, I think usually we would have that anonymous social worker telling a story as though they're immersed in the story. And, and we love those stories. We love that. But this is a different situation, like you said, in that this is a very private space for social work practice, which is the beauty of this podcast, right, is that we get to shine that light on those sort of more hidden spaces. So, this is an interview that we're going to listen to. And I think the other thing I wanted to say, Lis, just to clarify, is that the family court is not there for every single divorce proceedings. It's when things become tricky, right? That's, that's right. Yeah, when we jump into this interview, where we're coming at it from that from that place of understanding of what happens in relationship breakdown, and why the family court might be needed.
LM
Lis Murphy
3:54
And Mim the other thing that that that social workers talk about is the fact that they centre the child in their interviews and interventions with the family. So the child's very much central to their work. So what they'll do is, they'll talk about that. So they're actually going to explain their role and the different streams to the Social Work work in in the Federal Circuit and Family Court. They're also going to just tell us a little bit about what you need to do if you want to work in this space. So it's not something that a new grad can actually walk into. But they kindly talk about what they look for when they're employing social workers into their team. So that's really great. And they also highlighted the fact that this story, as usual, it's an amalgam of work and it's very de identified. They chose this one because they really wanted once again to show us how they center the child's voice in their work. So yeah, the other thing I want to mention it's kind of cutesy piece on my behalf, is that when I walked in to where I was meeting them Mim, there was a dog there that walks around the waiting room. Oh, and sits in some of the interviews, like, a companion dog in Yeah. Yeah. Which was so nice. And I, I actually asked the dog, I said, "Would you like to have an interview to tell me a little bit about the work that you do here?" But it's on its lunch break? And it said, you know, "Speak to my agent." So a little bit sad that I couldn't actually record? I think it was Poippy. Yeah, yeah, Poppy, I don't know. But maybe one day, one day, my friend, we might have a piece about working with animals.
MF
Mim Fox
5:45
I want to put that call out to social workers. If you work routinely with animals in your practice, let us know we're keen for those stories. Imagine having being in that waiting room, and feeling really nervous and really worried about what was coming. And then this beautiful dog comes up and rubs up against you how gorgeous. I love that, Lis, that's so beautiful. What a beautiful way to come into our story. So let's, like we said before, this is an interview that we're hearing with the social workers. And let's have a chat afterwards.
SW
Social Worker
6:19
I'm Clare. I'm Laura. And we both work at the Federal Circuit and Family Court of Australia, in the Court Children Service.
SW
Social worker
6:28
The Court Children Service is really set up to give advice to the court around children's care arrangements. So the crux of really what we do is to provide advice to make sure that the court is making the best decisions for children possible. So when we do that, we're doing assessments and we're meeting with families, we're meeting with parents and children to understand how that child is coping their experience of the family, how they're understanding that separation, and also thinking about any risk and safety factors, as well for that child that may be potential for the future, or they're currently experiencing. So all of those things together, were thinking about and considering in our work. So we can advise the court or write reports up for the court and they can make the best decisions possible to both best meet the child's well being needs. And also their safety needs, as well.
S3
speaker 3
7:23
Clare is that not something that the party's lawyers like the mum and the dad that their lawyers can tell the court?
SW
Social Worker
7:28
Well not really, really what we're doing is we're providing some of that independent assessment. So the parents get to present their cases before the court. We're the only people who really meet with the children, and really make sure their voice is included. Our job is to provide expert independent social science advice to the court. And so when we do that, we would be really providing that information about the individual needs of each of the children, and making sure that the voice of the child is really represented in all of our work. So that's our primary focus, and we're unambiguously child focused. So we will always make sure that all of our assessments really include a strong emphasis on the impact of the parents dispute on the children.
S3
speaker 3
8:20
Let's stick with you, Clare, when I asked, so that's what the service is for. What does the service actually do?
SW
Social Worker
8:27
What we actually do is we conduct child centered family assessments. And so that's interviewing all of the people, we interview the parents and we interview the children. And we will sometimes also do observations of the children with their parents in some of the work, we then would provide that evidence to the court so that information is all provided back to the court by way of our written work. As part of all of our assessments, we would undertake a risk assessment of each person. And we would also be assisting parents to narrow their dispute. So sometimes that might help in resolving the dispute, but it will narrow the issues in dispute where possible.j
S3
speaker 3
9:10
Just quickly when you say you'll undertake a risk assessment of each parent, what is a risk assessment?
SW
Social Worker
9:14
So we use in our work a standardized risk assessment. So what that actually means is that we have a set list of questions that we ask and then based on the information provided to us by parents, we will gather more information as we need it. So it gives us a robust understanding of any risk and safety concerns in each home.
S3
speaker 3
9:33
Okay, and how do you Laura how to become a court child expert?
SW
Social Worker
9:36
So to become a court child expert, you need to be either a psychologist or social worker, and additionally have five years of postgraduate work experience with children and families.
S3
speaker 3
9:49
And so I assume there's specialized training for CCS to beyond being a social worker or psychologist.
SW
Social Worker
9:55
So there is once people are employed by the court here within our Court Child Expert roles, we have quite a robust induction process. So that includes local inductions with senior staff, which includes new workers doing observations and shadowing of reports, sometimes doing some shadow writing as well. And then we also additionally have a national induction where all the new staff go through a series of six different educational sessions. And they're done in both an engaging kind of group work and seminar type format. And that provides not only, I guess, a support network for new stuff, as well, but also some of that more technical, clinical education that's needed for this role and to undertake this type of assessment work. In addition to that, we also have a monthly seminar program where we usually have a mix of internal and external staff presenting on specific topics that are relevant to our CCS work here. And we also, every CCE will have a supervisor or a senior CCE, Court Child Expert, and they will do QA. So quality assurance work.
SW
Social Worker
11:09
You know, we're basically saying that our court told experts are all provided with a lot of training specific to being able to do their job. So we're guided by the work of people like David Mandel and all our staff received some training in his work, we're certainly influenced by Anne Rose and a number of other key people who write to this area that you know, the work of Janet Johnson, who worked with a lot of the family violence frameworks. So all of our staff would have that level of training prior to actually starting to conduct the assessments.
11:47
And so Claire sticking with you for a second, we also sometimes hear of parents engaging their own experts to write reports, how do those experts differ from the court child experts?
11:57
Well, it's a good question, because there are private report writers. So private report writers, report writers who are engaged independently. So the parents might pay a fee to a private psychologist or social worker, who would write a report for the court, and that would go back to the court. Those people have nothing to do with our service. So the private report writers are completely separate to our service. So everyone who works for us is either a court child expert, or what we call a reg seven, contractor. So the capacity of the court child service to complete all of the work, but it's a limited resource, we can only do so much. But what we do with some of our work is we have engaged people called Reg Sevens, and they will complete family reports. What are they? Why are they called Reg Sevens. It's an interesting name, but it is from the act, their Regulation Seven family consultants, and we call them Reg Sevens, they can be private workers, but they're contracted to our service, and the court pays for their service. So it's still part of the Court Children's Service. And they are guided by all of our training all of our modules, all of our practice guidelines and directions, they are still bound to follow all of those.
13:24
So Clare, is it just the one type of report that you and your team are writing or various?
SW
Social Worker
13:32
We do two distinct pieces of written work. As for all Court Child Experts, so we do reports that are used for interim hearings, and they're called Child Impact Reports. That's a report where we would meet with the family and the children, so the parents and the children, and we would then write a report for the court, which is designed to assist a registrar to make interim, so the early decision making.
14:03
So what's meant by that what is early decision making?
SW
Social Worker
14:06
So it might be say, for example, there might have been some parents with a child and the child who hasn't been spending time with both of their parents, it might be that at that early stage, a child impact report might give some information to the court that indicates that perhaps that child needs to have some time with that other parent. So that might be something that informs the decision making by the registrar where they might then introduce some time between a parent and a child. Now this is at the interim stage. So it's the early stages of the court pathway. And it means that there's been some social science information provided to the court that can assist in a registrar making a decision about what a child might need.
SW
Social Worker
14:54
A good way to think about it or an easy distinction is that a child Impact Report really is considering and thinking about and advising what needs to happen for a child or children right now. And a family report is the long term thinking. So you're thinking about what needs to happen for the child now and into the future as their family leaves the court system.
15:17
So the child impact that the report is talking about is the impact that the situation has had on the child so far is that it?
SW
Social Worker
15:26
It is about that, but it's about the whole experience of the child. So it's not just about the parents' separation, but it's about any other risks or safety they've been exposed to. And primarily, it's about really allowing for the children to participate and have their voice heard as part of these proceedings as well.
S3
speaker 3
15:46
Okay. So Laura, you mentioned family reports, can you talk a tiny bit more about what they are and how they're used.
SW
Social Worker
15:52
So a family report is ordered. It's a big piece of work. It's also a social science report. And its objective is to assist with final decision making. So these are generally ordered when matters or families haven't been able to exit the court system, they haven't come to a resolution throughout the court pathway. And they need a judicial determination. So that is when a judge or a judicial officer will ask for a family report. What we want to do when we're completing family reports is consider what will be best for the child or the children in the long term. So throughout that their entire kind of care trajectory, how we can facilitate or set their care arrangements up to best support their well being needs and their safety in the long term.
S3
speaker 3
16:40
I think that's great.
SW
Social Worker
16:43
Well, I think that we do three pieces of work. So one is the Child Impact Report that Laura has just described, and the family report, which Laura has also described, but we also work in the dispute resolution space. So a Ccourt Child Expert, can assist in some of the dispute resolution conferences that are conducted by registrars. And again, that's about bringing the voice of the child into the midst of the dispute resolution process. So we can really focus on the needs and interests of children, and as a way of assisting parents to resolve their disputes.
17:20
So to ask a naive question, that's because the child is not physically present in the dispute resolution?
SW
Social Worker
17:27
Correct. So the child is not there. And in the dispute resolution process, the court child expert hasn't actually met the child, their job is to talk to the needs and interests of children, and perhaps to to hear the information from the parents and reflect on what that might be meaning for their child. So they try to keep that very targeted. But it is also that they haven't, they haven't actually met that child as part of that process.
17:58
I kind of imagine hearing for a parent or for both parents, hearing someone who is not the child's parent, talking about what's best for the child must be really hard.
SW
Social Worker
18:10
I actually think that's a good question. I think what we provide is information about the needs and interests of children. And we do that from an objective viewpoint as possible. So it will, it's using our skills and knowledge in issues for children in separation, developmental needs, considering any traumatic impacts for children, we would take all of those sorts of things into consideration. We're not saying that we're the experts in those children's lives by any stretch, what we are saying is that we've got some knowledge that we can share about how children are impacted by parental separation.
SW
Social Worker
18:57
And sometimes it's really just not advising parents, but reflecting back to them, what their proposals might mean for their children and how their children might experience that. So it's definitely not saying we know best for your child, and we know your child better than you. But it's really just kind of doing that reflective piece of work and saying, Okay, well, if this is your proposal to the court, how is that going to best meet your child's needs, and unpicking it from that child centric standpoint?
SW
Social Worker
19:24
Yeah, so it's, you know, it could be reality testing, to where we're really checking, you know, a parent might say, they live quite a distance apart. And there's no issue with the travel. Whereas we might be asking some questions about how a child might be managing those sorts of things. So it's about bringing it back to a child's experience,
SW
Social Worker
19:45
And also ensuring, especially with examples like that, that care arrangements that are put in place are also sustainable and thinking about them. You know, for example, if we have an eight year old child what might be different when they're 10, or when they're 12. And trying to set families up with robust arrangements, are they sustainable, and they're not popping back into the system as well.
20:07
I often find that I'm asking people like maternal child health, or like the educators at the Kinder or whatever questions because I'm like, I know some stuff about my kid, but I don't know anything about kids.
20:20
That is a really good distinction, though, because it is, you know, you're the expert in your children. But to actually hear somebody talk broadly about children's needs, it's really helpful.
20:33
I think it'd be good to hear about a sort of a case that might come across a Court Child Expert's desk, I understand that there's like a really broad and diverse range of the kinds of cases that would come. And so maybe for our purposes, like something relatively straightforward, we're good thing. Can you take me through something?
SW
Social Worker
20:54
I think what we could talk to is a really a hypothetical case, it's important to acknowledge that a lot of the families that come to the court children's service have situations that don't involve a lot of risk. But in order to really illustrate what we do, we've chosen a case. And as I said, it's hypothetical, we've chosen a case that has a lower level of risk. But there is still some dynamics there that are things that we deal with, in all of our cases.
SW
Social Worker
21:25
So as Claire said, we're going to talk through a hypothetical case, I'll have to give you some details and data about the family. And then we'll have maybe a bit of a reflection in terms of what the Court Child Expert would be doing with the family when they're meeting with them. So in this case, we have a child called Lily, she is eight years old, and her parents are Sophie and Andrew. They were married for 10 years, and Lily is their only child and they have recently separated. So Andrew has moved away from the location where Lily and Sophie are living. And the parents have initially agreed to Lily spending time with Andrew, once a month, given the distance and the travel. That's that Lily will have to absorb to see Andrew. But Andrew actually wants more time with Lily than that. And he has tried to negotiate extra time, Sophie is adamant that she doesn't want any additional travel for Lily.
SW
Social Worker
22:20
So the first step that these parents have taken is to attend a family dispute resolution. And this is something that happens externally from the court. So before they've entered the court system, and is community based, so is run by a community organization. And through this dispute resolution process, Sophie and Andrew have been unable to come to some kind of care arrangement agreement. So failing that Andrew has made an application to the court. And what he is seeking in his initial application is for equal shared care, or for Lily to come and live with him and spend one weekend per month with her mother Sophie. Sophie has become frustrated that Andrew has initiated court proceedings, wanting to not you know, wanting to be able to make decisions about Lily's care arrangements outside of litigation. So she has responded to this application and is wanting to keep that care arrangements as they are so Lily primarily living with her and spending time with her father, once per month.
SW
Social Worker
23:30
And so following Andrew's application and Sophie's response, the parents are seen by a Registrar for one of the initial hearings, and a child impact report has been ordered with the registrar believing that some social science expertise would be of assistance to best understand what's going to help and support Lily and her care.arrangements moving forward. So, as part of the child Impact Report assessment, both parents will be interviewed and a standardized risk assessment takes place where they both answer separately, of course, but they answer questions relating to any allegations of family violence, any mental health concerns for themselves or for the other parent. Any concerns around drug and alcohol misuse, and whether there are any other concerns relating to well being and safety for Lily, including any child protection involvement. In this matter, Sophie responds that she is concerned about Andrews use of alcohol and prescription drugs and feels Lilly is not safe to travel the distance required to spend time with him if he's driving. She did not raise any other concerns that would pertain to Lily's safety. Andrew was asked the same question and denied any problematic use of prescription medication or alcohol. He reported that he continues to take pain medication for a workplace back injury that said that this is closely monitored by his GP. And he's not abusing this in anyway, Andrew said that Sophie is being overly protective and is preventing him from having a relationship with Lily. He said her behavior is too restrictive and is also punitive and is becoming frustrated with Sophie.
SW
Social Worker
25:14
After having met with both the parents, I met with Lily. During the interview with Lily she tells me that she loves both of her parents. She says she knows her parents don't like each other, and this makes her sad. There are a few things I know in particular about Lily's interview when she's talking to me that I jotted down. The first one was that she was worried about how to talk to her mom and dad about the other now that they are apart. She was once introduced to a new friend of her dad's and after she told her mum about this new friend she missed the next scheduled weekend with her dad which upset her. She once heard her dad telling someone on the phone that Sophie was a bad mother. And Lily also said that she likes going to her dad's. But because the visits are on the weekend, she has to miss netball, which makes her really sad and means she might not get a game the next week.
SW
Social Worker
26:06
So Lily said she worries about her parents. She likes living with her mother, but she wishes she could see her father more. Lily became upset when she was talking about this. And she said that she worries about both her mother and her father only loving half of her because she's worried that they don't like the other half that's associated with her other parent because they hate each other so much. They don't like each other. Following interviewing Lily and her parents, what I then did was talk to my senior Court Child Expert to have a consult, and to talk about any of the things that I was concerned with, for Lily or for her parents. And I think one of the primary things in this matter is that Lily feel so torn between her parents, and she's feeling a pressure I suppose to protect both of her parents not wanting to upset the other one. But she's also wanting to maintain her relationship with her dad, and doesn't really know how to do this. So Lily is only eight years old. And I would be worried about the amount of pressure and maybe stress that this kind of separation family system environment is having on her and her well being.
SW
Social Worker
27:17
So there are things that I would be thinking about when I'm writing up my report. And also what we do in the child Impact Report space is provide feedback to parents following meeting with the child. So in this case, Lily. And in this scenario, I provided feedback individually to Sophie and Andrew. And both were really shocked at what I told them about Lily's well being. And Andrew had not realized that preventing Lily from going to netball on his weekend was having such an impact on her. He continued to maintain that there was nothing that could be done about that. But he would think about it. Sophie didn't realize that Lily had been upset when time had been stopped, and she hadn't been able to go and see Andrew on that weekend, she said Lily had not said anything to her. So she assumed that Lily didn't mind at all as well. This matter went to a dispute resolution conference. So after the child impact report was completed, that was then submitted to the court and the parents were provided with a copy of that. And the overseeing registrar then ordered for a dispute resolution conference to occur. So this was conducted by register of the court. So this is an internal dispute resolution conference. And it's different to the dispute resolution conference I spoke about earlier that was community based. And so this was also conducted with a Court Child Expert in attendance. And the matter was fully settled and the family exited the court system. And the way that this occurred was that there was a lot of compromise on both parents behalf. But Lily's needs and interests were kept at the forefront of that decision making. The agreement Andrew and Sophie reached was that Lily would continue to live with Sophie. But she would have had FaceTime calls with Andrew three times a week, Andrew said that he would find a way to make netball matches when Lily comes and spends time with him. They negotiated a fortnightly spend time arrangement, which means Lily would go and spend time every second weekend with Andrew.
SW
Social Worker
29:22
For them when we're thinking about this case and being able to achieve an outcome like that. It's nice to think about parents actually being able to make a child focused decision. So things like netball, somebody might think is not really a big issue for a child. So a parent might think, what would they prefer spending time with me or going to netball? And that's a terrible sort of decision that children in non separated families don't have to make. So I think when Laura is able to talk to Andrew about the impact of that on Lily, you know because we all know children, if if they're not regularly in things like a sports team, they get forgotten. So the coach can't remember is it this week or that week that Lily's not here, and invariably, children start to miss out on some of those things. Now, when we think about that, from an adult point of view, you think, well, it's really important that she has time with her, her dad in this case, but it's also really important that she gets to do some of the things that are important for her. And the other thing that Laura and I reflected on in this case is, you know, that comment where Lily is choosing not to tell her parents things. So she's learned that if she tells her parents things, that other things in her world can change quite substantially. So her eight year old coping mechanism here is to make a decision that it's better not to say anything. And so she stops telling her mum and dad things that are really important in her life. And it's not unusual for us to be dealing with parents where they're not as aware of some of the things that their children might be saying, because the children have actually started to think about their parents' needs and prioritize them over their own needs. So this is where children start to say, that will be upsetting for dad to hear that or that will be upsetting for mum. So I won't say anything. And so a lot of our work is trying to help people to really understand the impact that the parents' dispute can have on children. And that some of those things that we see quite regularly where children are finding ways to manage how best to share information with their parents can end up causing them some challenges. And part of our role is to try to reflect that back to parents so that they can have a deeper understanding of the impact of that. And as in this case, reach a resolution where, you know, in this case, Andrew decides he will start his time with Lily at the Netball game that's prioritizing something that's important to Lily. And but it's also taking Lily out of that space where she's had to make a decision. Is it netball? Or is it time with a parent, she'd no longer has to bear that responsibility, because her parents have actually come up with a solution that actually removes her from that. And that's actually a lot of what we would be working towards in our services trying to assist parents to view their dispute from the impact it has on their children, rather than what's happening specifically for them.
SW
Social Worker
32:47
And just to add on to that a little bit, even though it seems like such a small thing, maybe to adults in terms of whether Lily misses a couple of netball games, the messaging now that dad is picking or Andrews picking Lily up from netball, Lily is now able to absorb a little bit that her parents have listened to her, and that they're able to manage and negotiate around some of her needs and her views. And I think that also enables her to build up a little bit of trust that she's now able to talk to her parents about things and decisions can be made that do reflect her best interests as well.
33:25
I think that the interesting thing from the hypothetical as well is the difference in perspectives. We hear when you interviewed the parents we heard like it was mostly oriented around their relationships and their feelings for one another after what's happened. But then the introduction of the perspective of Lilly is really what changed things for them. Is that something that you would expect to happen, like often for the child Impact Report to have that sort of impact on on the process.
SW
Social Worker
33:58
That's our goal. Our goal is that anything that can really bring the voice of the child to the fore is what we're really focused on.
MF
Mim Fox
34:13
Lis, I want to start talking with you about the centering of the child in this in this story that their social worker so beautifully provided. For me I have to say I got a bit emotional listening to the words of this child and and the way that the child was being helped to articulate how they emotionally were processing and navigating what was happening with their parents. I don't think we hear enough of that. And I I know we've had a couple of social workers and health professionals on the podcast in the past who've also wanted to put forward the child's voice. I think this is so important for us in social work practice to remember to not ignore the child within that scenario, because like the social worker said, they're the only ones who meet with the child. Right? There's no one else meeting with the child. That's a heavy responsibility.
LM
Lis Murphy
35:14
It look it is. But it also highlights to me the importance of having social workers in that space. Yeah. Because they are the ones that are centering it. They're not focusing on one or the other. I actually, when I was listening to them, I remember when I worked in a domestic and family violence service, where my focus was the woman. Yes. And it made me realize how different the work is that I was doing with, say, the woman to the work that they're doing in the family court, very different roles. And I liked the fact that they talked about how different those roles are, and the delineation. And the fact that most of their work is around assessment. Yeah. And ensuring that that once again, that voices are heard by parents, but in particular, the child. And and I think they I was really interested in the way they said, if you're someone who really likes, short, sharp, deep work, this could be something worth considering. So I think about our social work students that are listening, that possibly don't have the opportunity to do a placement, I didn't ask them that. But my sense is that you have to be five years plus post grad to even get a foot in the door. And I think this, I'm hoping that this might also assist people to understand what they would need to do if this work is attracting them, then now they've got a sense of what they need to do child protection. Sounds like it's a common career pathway. Yes. But definitely working in this space with a child is the focus.
MF
Mim Fox
36:47
Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't really see where this sort of story of this interview actually fits into our social work, education and getting people to think about different pathways. I also really liked how in this role, they're taught, they're sort of walking a line between risk assessment and risk management and awareness. And so that safety lens, and the child's voice and the more emotional or qualitative experience that the child is having, whilst in that, because sometimes when you just come at it from a risk perspective, like they were saying, that's often a parental perspective, it's or a paternal perspective, that you need to, you know, protect the child from all these potential risks. And that makes absolute sense. But if you only did that, then you would lose actually that nuance around what the child is needing, as they navigate through that presence of risk. I really liked that balance that the social workers actually were able to demonstrate really lovely.
LM
Lis Murphy
37:57
And I have them speaking to me outside away from the mic, saying that that was their main aim that they wanted to have that featured in terms of their work. I hope this is a this is an accurate representation. As we said earlier, it's a different type of of episode what we would normally do, right, Mim? But we're glad that we can actually shine the light on this important work that the social workers are doing in the Federal Circuit and Family Court.
MF
Mim Fox
38:29
That's right, we really want to say thank you to them for opening their doors to us as well. And, you know, it's sometimes it is tricky for these sorts of spaces to welcome media or, you know, externalize in so really, really appreciate that. And, you know, like we said before, is if there are social workers out there who are interested in this space, or students or space, or social workers who have graduated looking to move into this space, then this is a great resource. And if you're doing similar sort of work, and particularly if you're working with any sort of companion or comfort animal, then definitely let us know we're really keen to showcase that sort of practice as well. Thanks so much, everyone. It has been a busy month and looking forward to another one, but also having a bit of a break. So winter holidays, Lis, it's time to run up and get warm, hey,
LM
Lis Murphy
39:27
Indeed Mim, and I'm actually venturing down to Newcastle, where I'm going to speak at a conference with social work students who are doing this amazing two day program presenting on their research. So I'm incredibly excited, got myself a new frock. And I'll be behind the mic with my mates at the University of Newcastle. So looking forward to that.
MF
Mim Fox
39:53
And while you're doing that, I'll be presenting on our other series Making Visible: Preventing and Responding to Violence, Abuse and Neglect. I'm with the Illawarra Shoalhaven local health district. So if anyone hasn't checked out that series of ours, you should be doing that as well. Awesome. Take care, everyone. Have a great few weeks. See you later.
LM
Lis Murphy
40:12
Bye.
JS
J S
40:17
Thanks for listening to the Social Work stories podcast. All of the stories we share are de identified to respect and protect the people involved. We create this podcast because we're passionate about building the Global Social Work community and strengthening our practice no matter the context. If you want to help us grow the podcast tribe, and continue the work we do, we would love it if you can subscribe or follow the podcast in your favorite podcast app. That way, you'll be sure to get every episode as soon as it's released. While you're in your podcast app. If you can leave us a five star rating and write a review it would mean so much to us. You can connect with us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn where you can share our posts with your friends to help spread the word. And you can always find us at our home on the web, social work stories.com The Social Work stories podcast is made by Lis Murphy, Dr. Mim Fox, Justin stache. Dr. Ben Joseph and Maddy Stratton. Thanks so much for listening.